A word on the gay AM experience

asianmovement

Well ,these are some of the PMs Ive recieved from a few AM lurkers from /r/gayasian Their experiences reveal some alarmingly similar things.

coolsimmer said:

Hey,
Yeah, maybe I’ll write something up to post about my experiences as a bi guy. Meanwhile, here are answers to your questions:

The stereotypes are: short, effeminate, submissive, hairless, small dick, ugly/pretty depending on the person (people who are against Asian guys would say ugly (chinky eyes, flat nose, etc.), people who fetishize gay Asian men would say gorgeous (meaning effeminate, submissive, etc.) similar to yellow fever guys). Also, the stereotype is that all Asian guys are bottoms (guys who receive during anal sex)(the “woman’s position”). So, really, gay Asian men are treated like Asian females (for the guys with Yellow Fever fetishes) and treated like straight Asian males (for the other guys who do not have Yellow Fever). Of course, there are also a lot of guys who may not have Yellow Fever who also don’t find Asian guys disgusting, but it is still pervasive enough that it is common for gay asian guys to screen guys who show attraction!
Yes, I believe that straight media still forms the basis of LGBTQ+ members’ beauty standards since that is the mainstream and what we are exposed to growing up. Gay white men aren’t seen as the top because of only gay media, but mainly due to straight media’s portrayal of white men. Of course, having gay media which worships the white male as the beauty standard contributes to the problem as well. In gay and straight media, gay Asian males basically have only one role: the overly effeminate sidekick (maybe sassy too). So, LGBT media largely reinforces the stereotypes purported by straight media. Basically, what I want to say is that straight media affects everyone, so Glenn from Walking Dead actually helps gay Asian men as well.
I think that used to be super common a few years back (the whole outright voicing of racist “preferences”). Nowadays, I think if you are in a metropolitan area, no one outright says “I don’t date Asian guys”. They just block you when they find out that you are gay. Of course, there are still guys who do put that out, but I’d say it has reduced a lot. HOWEVER, this is just my experience, which is different from what the internet shows (there are blogs dedicated to showing Grindr (the gay Tinder) profiles of guys who put these racist statements on their profiles (Ex. “Not into fem, fat and rice”). Another thing is that the people writing these things on their profiles are also some times gay Asian men themselves. For example, just yesterday, I visited a gay Asian guy’s profile and in it, he wrote “Not into Asian guys!” (which I don’t think he really needed to worry about since he was not exactly a 5 let alone a 10… Haha! JK)
In general, I think the dating experience of LGBT asian men varies just like it does for straight Asian men. At the end of the day, regardless of what you say about colourblindness and progressive liberal beliefs, lgbt Asian men also start at a disadvantage normally (they start at an advantage for yellow fever guys). One additional toxic layer to it though is that Asian men are also commonly the ones who support these stereotypes. LGBT Asian men are both the Uncle Chans and victims, whereas in the straight community, Asian females often times attack Asian males for their own benefit. Within LGBT Asian men who grew up with North American media, it’s often that you grow up seeing the ideal man being the white male. So, your own preferences are skewed towards the white male as well. So, it is common for Asian men to only date white men. (one difference is that Asian men would actually date hispanic men and black men, etc. all before other Asian men). This group of Uncle Chan lgbt asian men see all other asian men as competition for white men’s attention. They find other asian men gross (perhaps see them as “friends only” as opposed to something as drastic as gross) and may also buy into the stereotypes of Asian men. So then you might think, “Why would they buy into it if they themselves are Asian men and know that the stereotypes aren’t necessarily true?” Well, this is another example of how toxic the media’s stereotypes can be. This group of lgbt Asian men may be insecure about themselves and they are trying to gain favour with white people since they think of white as upward movement in status (hypergamy), but most importantly, they think of themselves as special (the one special guy who isn’t a walking stereotype). So, this group is like the Anna Lu’s except they don’t realize that by perpetuating the stereotypes, they are also harming their own perceived value from others.

Of course, I do think that things have gotten much better in recent years, but that doesn’t mean that things are great. And as with the straight community too, there are Asian men who are successful in dating. Attractive guys will be attractive guys regardless of race sometimes. Also, this group of self hating lgbt asian men may not be all lgbt asian men, but they are a significant portion similar to how there is a significant portion of Asian females who antagonize Asian males but not ALL Asian females are like that.
Well, I hope that was helpful. I think I rambled on a bit lol.

krispera said:

Hey, I used to hang out on gaysians, but not anymore. I do hang out in asianmasc now. Half or even more of them are white worshipping and say there is nothing wrong with it. I can make an essay for you if you can. Oh… how much time I lost explaining the gaysian struggle to my ex uncle chan gaysian best friend.I’m not going to answer on gaysian, I’m done with them. Let’s start by answering you questions :

What I want to know is if gay asian men face similar problems /sentiments in your dating world.

Yes. 2x. From the heterosexual world to the gay world.

Do you guys experience the same sentiments from white men/ black men / etc who give the same excuses?

Yes.

Are their any anti-asian sentiments against asian men in the gay community?
Yes. It hurts even more to hear from a gaysian fellow that they only like white guys. Like AW, they are quick to say it out loud even if nobody asked them. I don’t hang with this kind of gaysian.I feel they are toxic and also like one of the posters said : YOU ARE A COMPETITION TO THEM. THEY WILL HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A COMPETITION TO THE WHITE COCKS.

Also , what kinds of sterotypes do Gay Asian men experience? What is the dating experience of gay asian men?

Stereotypes : effeminate, bottom (receiving), needy, skinny, only into old white men, small penis, want to get married fast, dramatic, etc.Dating looks pretty bad to me. I’m not ugly and I know it. I hang A LOT in gay clubs and bars. I know lots of people and the bartenders in my gay village (Montreal). I hang out in places that gaysians are not hanging : bears, stud, fetish, manly, scruff pub/bars. The patrons and bartenders seem to like me enough to give me free alcohol everytime. Not many guys come and cruise me, but I’m alright with that. A strong independant gaysian can scare them. Most of time, the guys (white) are surprised by my attitude and personality. I guess if you talk and act like them, you’re ‘‘one of them’’.White old men are the easy one. They are always hunting for gaysians. I don’t go for them and don’t let them talk to me. White guys are into white guys, period. I’m generalizing of course, but most of gay people and PoC want a white guy. It’s easy, just ask any gay PoC and they will never ever refuse to fuck with a white guy. Most of time you’ll see a young PoC with an old white men. Mostly.

Gaypride is this week in MTL and I’ll go out this weekend. I’ll see lots of it.
TLDR : It’s bad, the situation is really bad. Your family hates you, the female hate you and the gays hate you. Triple combo.

PS : I’m alright, still going strong. Fighting it everyday.

If you guys know of any research articles / articles in general that would be great.

Just some blogs for overall situation (I have more, but you’ll get the context):
http://modelminority.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=152:the-truth-about-
http://angryhomosexual.com/ (I love this one, not scientific, but harsh and true)
http://www.gmfa.org.uk/Sites/fsmagazine/pages/fs148-racism-and-the-gay-scene
http://www.out.com/news-commentary/2012/01/11/no-asians

hoangevity said:

I’m 22 and grew up in the Midwest. Based in my experience, I honestly feel like we do face some of the same social issues that our fellow asian males face. We are considered on the bottom of the attractiveness hierarchy. Because Asian males are often depicted as feminine, submissive and have small “boy parts”, we are assumed to be bottoms. I remember when I first downloaded those dating apps and seeing “No Asians” on a good number of profiles. If you want to read more, just do a quick search “No Asians/Blacks, Grindr.” You can find tons of articles over it.

Here are a few of the top results from Google.
http://angryhomosexual.com/jackd-racism-study/
http://www.projectq.us/atlanta/Youre_racist_on_Grindr_and_heres_how?gid=16611
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaybros/comments/1hrdpr/

My white ex boyfriend even once said to me, “If we break up, I think I’m gonna date a white guy. They are just so much more attractive.” Obviously, I dropped that winch.
It definitely took a toll on my self image and for awhile made me hate being Asian. It was hard enough for me to figure out my identity as an Asian American in the Midwest, but to be seemingly rejected by the gay community left me feeling completely isolated and depressed. Looking back, I think it’s definitely shaped me to discover define myself as an individual. Because I did not feel like I belong to either group, I quickly accepted the problems for what they were and just focused on the betterment of myself. I am in a happy relationship with an amazing guy and just moved to a big city starting a career in a field that I am passionate about. I had a friend in college who was also a gay asian and was a constant ball of negativity blaming his loneliness and depression on being Asian. He never took initiative to use that negativity as a motivational tool for to better himself. Sorry if I sound like I am rambling, but in the long scheme of things, it’s easy to blame the world for the problems you face, but everyone has a set of problems that they are facing. But it’s those who can overcome them who are truly happy.

Sidenote: I actually unsubscribed to that subreddit when I read something that talked about hetero asian guys should support their gaysian brothers. A couple of the comments were, from what I remember, anti-homosexual. It bothered me that we couldn’t even support each other because of who we are attracted to. I think we are fighting the same, if not similar, wars. Glad to see it isn’t the case for everyone!

secondstrike

@neonfuzion can you structure this a little better? We should make reading as easy and useful as possible.