Thoughts on California's new bill targeted towards only Asian-Americans?
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The article can be found here: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/california-data-disaggregation-bill-sparks-debate-asian-american-community-n638286?cid=sm_fb
But I’ll highlight some key points since it is a bit long to read:
Those who support it, including dozens of community and civil rights groups, say separating demographic data by ethnicity — and including at least 10 additional AAPI ethnic groups — can help better expose disparities in healthcare and education.
But critics counter that the bill, introduced in the State Assembly in January, is unfair because it targets only Asians and no other race. They fear it could be a backdoor way of ending California’s ban on affirmative action and say it further divides up AAPIs into unnecessary hyphenated groups.
many of them immigrants from China, see the bill as the latest in a series of threats against Chinese Americans trying to achieve social and economic equalit
This mandate…could have proven particularly useful for Southeast Asian students who tend to have lower academic achievement rates…bill supporters say
Bob Huff…likened the data collection in AB-1726 to what Congress used to write and pass the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which restricted immigration from China, and what the U.S. Secret Service employed to put Japanese Americans in internment camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
“[the amendment] does not address the question why the bill only focuses on Asians and not other ethnic groups. We remain very concerned.”
In arguing against AB-1726, opponents often ask why there isn’t legislation that requires demographic data be broken down for, say, whites or Latinos.
Proposition 209…forbids the use of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin for public college or university admissions decisions in California. Many Chinese-American parents fear that should the ban be lifted, Chinese-American enrollment rates at prestigious University of California schools will plummet
“That was a wake up call to the Asian, especially the Chinese community…They are very concerned that bills such as AB-1726 will just be like a back door seeking to overturn Proposition 209.”
So what do you guys think? Is the bill genuinely just about collecting data based on different Asian ethnicities because different ethnic groups have different health problems and academic successes or is this a disguise for something more sinister such as putting in place another affirmative action targeted specifically against just Northeast Asians? Also, is it another strategy employed to divide and pit Asians against one another (in this case, NEA vs. SEA), whether intentionally or unintentionally?
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@natalie_ng said in Thoughts on California's new bill targeted towards only Asian-Americans?:
What about the ones that are legal and/or are born here?
The problem is you can’t talk about legal Hispanic citizens w/o also talking about illegal immigrants. The two are intertwined. 1st-gen immigrants tend to be illegal while their children are legal. Because of this makeup, families involve illegal immigrant parents who work under the table (these jobs may or may not pay bottom of the barrel) while children are legal. That allows them to access welfare, nutrition assistance and health-care.
I’m not exactly sure how well Hispanics do outside of Hispanic enclaves but here in AZ where there’s a significant population and where cost of living is lower, they’re actually not doing too bad here. 2nd generation moved up and getting some white-collar jobs. Not top of the line stuff, but it pays for life here well enough. 3rd-generation are going to college and supposedly Hispanics have the highest likelihood of going to college.
Poverty is a notable barrier and yes, it is SIMILAR to SEA’s problems but they’re poorer than whites and Asians. Remember that for many families, they came here as illegals and therefore the work that they do are under the table and may not be able to afford the same living as Asian-Americans. Asian Americans tend to be legal immigrants and therefore have access to higher paying jobs. Sure, SEA’s live on the low end, but the legal low end is higher than the illegal low end.
True, but you also said their culture/family values are also holding them back. In that sense, they are similar to SEAs/Hispanics.
Similar to Hispanic, but not Asian. Asian family values/culture are largely the same except that EA has middle-class values. All you’d have to do is install those values onto SEA parents and make it a smoother ride which will catapult SEA to the same levels as EA. Black/Hispanic culture/family values do not have middle-class values and black families tend to be more broken than Hispanic ones. Hispanic families are intact but tend to be poorer than whites/Asians. Both Black/Hispanic have a similar academic achievement levels.
I see. So is this the main trait that would differentiate SEAs from blacks/hispanics (and hence, enabling you to believe that they have more hope with governmental assistance programs than blacks/hispanics)?
Governmental assistance is not the end all be all. All races have access to governmental assistance already. It’s difficult to talk about Blacks and Hispanics b/c each race does not have the same problems and yes, we are different. To lump us all into the same category and dole out assistance across the board will not work.
then why should they worry about whether or not affirmative action will affect them?
They’re looking at the long term potential implications which means that it’s calculated and not an overreaction. An overreaction means that the bill has zero impact and affirmative action coming back has zero chance. The chance for affirmative action coming back is still there.
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Not if they’re illegal.
What about the ones that are legal and/or are born here?
Black people aren’t immigrants that come here w/ no language skills.
True, but you also said their culture/family values are also holding them back. In that sense, they are similar to SEAs/Hispanics.
Asian work ethic already supercedes Hispanic and Black work ethic.
I see. So is this the main trait that would differentiate SEAs from blacks/hispanics (and hence, enabling you to believe that they have more hope with governmental assistance programs than blacks/hispanics)?
It’s ethically correct to pass this bill. Because it has to do with having better access to data. This doesn’t come at the expense of any groups at all. Nowhere does it say that affirmative action will be returned.
By this alone, wouldn’t that mean that Chinese-Americans ARE indeed overreacting? You said “They know that this bill doesn’t come at their expense in the short term but in the long term, affirmative action WILL affect them” but since “nowhere does it say that affirmative action will be returned” and that “this doesn’t come at the expense of any groups at all”, then why should they worry about whether or not affirmative action will affect them?
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@natalie_ng said in Thoughts on California's new bill targeted towards only Asian-Americans?:
So wouldn’t the same also apply to hispanic immigrants (coming without much skills and having different cultural values than say, Jewish/Indian/EA)?
Not if they’re illegal.
then shouldn’t the same have also been able to help blacks/hispanics? If yes, then why hasn’t it been able to? If not, what differentiates SEA’s situation to that of blacks/hispanics? Why does SEA appear to be more “fixable” but blacks/hispanics are labeled as “beyond the government’s help at this point”?
Black people aren’t immigrants that come here w/ no language skills. There’s already programs in place that aim to help African Americans. Hispanics are a different situation. Their children are catered to by hiring bilingual teachers making learning easier. Their children’s legal status allows them to get welfare, healthcare, etc. When they get out of education, just being able to speak Spanish gets them jobs.
At some point, the government can’t do anything more. If the parents aren’t teaching children that they need to succeed in school, need to work hard and earn things for themselves, then they become vulnerable to to the toxic elements of ghetto culture. Asian work ethic already supercedes Hispanic and Black work ethic. SEA are missing middle-class values that allows them to take it to the next level. There is no ghetto Asian culture. If they fall into ghetto culture at all, it is either Black or Hispanic ghetto culture.
Also, do you personally believe that the Chinese-Americans are “overreacting” and that this bill does not come at their expense at all? If so, why? And if not, do you think it’s ethically correct to pass a law aiming to help one group but at the expense of another group?
I don’t think they’re overreacting. They know what the possible threat is and they are defending their position by voicing opposition and trying to get this shut down. They know that this bill doesn’t come at their expense in the short term but in the long term, affirmative action WILL affect them.
It’s ethically correct to pass this bill. Because it has to do with having better access to data. This doesn’t come at the expense of any groups at all. Nowhere does it say that affirmative action will be returned.
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1st-gen SEA immigrate here w/o much skills and so the job pool and pay will be limited. Tight funds at home can lead to bumps on the road for children. Clothes, supplies, lunches, etc. Also SEA family values are different than that of EA and Indian.
So wouldn’t the same also apply to hispanic immigrants (coming without much skills and having different cultural values than say, Jewish/Indian/EA)?
I think it has more to do with culture and family values.
So technically, SEA, Latinos and blacks are in the same boat then (struggling in America compared to other groups due to different cultural/family values). If the data used can help better “inform [SEA] parents on how to plan their children’s education, make sure that they have everything they need for school”, then shouldn’t the same have also been able to help blacks/hispanics? If yes, then why hasn’t it been able to? If not, what differentiates SEA’s situation to that of blacks/hispanics? Why does SEA appear to be more “fixable” but blacks/hispanics are labeled as “beyond the government’s help at this point”?
Also, do you personally believe that the Chinese-Americans are “overreacting” and that this bill does not come at their expense at all? If so, why? And if not, do you think it’s ethically correct to pass a law aiming to help one group but at the expense of another group?
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@natalie_ng said in Thoughts on California's new bill targeted towards only Asian-Americans?:
In your opinion, what do you think are the reasons for that? Perhaps identifying the cause (rather than just the people) may help. Also, how do you think this bill will be able to specifically help them? Through welfare?
1st-gen SEA immigrate here w/o much skills and so the job pool and pay will be limited. Tight funds at home can lead to bumps on the road for children. Clothes, supplies, lunches, etc. Also SEA family values are different than that of EA and Indian. EA/Indian come with middle-class values in a low-class environment. Parents tend to be heavily invested in their children’s success. Because SEA tends to live in poorer areas, w/o the proper guidance by parents, they will get mixed up in Latino/Black culture and may turn thuggish/ghetto.
With the data, I think they can use it to identify problem areas. Maybe better inform parents on how to plan their children’s education, make sure that they have everything they need for school. Parents should have services that help them better obtain skills such as learning English (GED even. If they don’t have one), learn new job skills, job placement, etc. Access to counselors, psychiatrists for families struggling w/ domestic issues and so on.
Blacks and hispanics have long been “identified” as the most “vulnerable” groups to poverty in America, but it seems like simply “identifying” them all these years haven’t been enough because they STILL remain the poorest groups. So I’m just very curious as to how this bill will tackle the SEA poverty problem when blacks/hispanics continue remaining poor when bill after bill has been issued to help them. Maybe I’m just missing something here.
I think it has more to do with culture and family values. It’s not something that’s easily fixed and until the community evolves to look at what’s really affecting them then it’s going nowhere. It’s beyond the government’s help at this point.
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There are issues where SEA immigrate here poor and stay poor. Future generations should be doing better but they’re not.
In your opinion, what do you think are the reasons for that? Perhaps identifying the cause (rather than just the people) may help. Also, how do you think this bill will be able to specifically help them? Through welfare?
Blacks and hispanics have long been “identified” as the most “vulnerable” groups to poverty in America, but it seems like simply “identifying” them all these years haven’t been enough because they STILL remain the poorest groups. So I’m just very curious as to how this bill will tackle the SEA poverty problem when blacks/hispanics continue remaining poor when bill after bill has been issued to help them. Maybe I’m just missing something here.
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@natalie_ng said in Thoughts on California's new bill targeted towards only Asian-Americans?:
@suiko_no_shin Yeah, according to the article in my op, some Asians in Cali are for it, some are against it.
Chinese are against it. Everyone else is for it. Chinese have the most to lose as they are dis-proportionally over-represented in higher education. They fear affirmative action b/c if they start making space for other Asian groups, then they will be the ones that are affected. What they fail to see is that this is more than about affirmative action. There are issues where SEA immigrate here poor and stay poor. Future generations should be doing better but they’re not.
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@suiko_no_shin Yeah, according to the article in my op, some Asians in Cali are for it, some are against it.
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http://hksaapr.com/advancing-the-asian-american-and-pacific-islander-data-quality-campaign-data-disaggregation-practice-and-policy/
http://aapidata.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AAPIData-CAP-report.pdf
http://reappropriate.co/2016/08/we-cannot-disregard-data-how-opposition-to-data-disaggregation-hurts-aapi/
