Realizing a big problem
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@psylee123 Now we have ESR.
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@arcterex Hi, thanks for your reply. Race is just a social construct created by white people. However, it impacted our daily life, in every aspect. In my opinion, people are unified by cultural heritage and historical experience which shape mutual identity. “Asian” is a category lumped by white American, meaning EA+SEA+SA. However, in the fabric of history, SA and EA+SEA developed into different paths. Caste system prevalent in SA is lack in EA+SEA. Buddhism was originated from SA, but nowadays is popular in EA+SEA and almost extinct in the Subcontinent. Geographical condition (such as Himalayas) made the cultural exchange and immigration between EA and SA not as frequent as EA and SEA. This had shaped different mentality between EA and SA. Just a few example. In addition, SA community does not suffer from massive woman drain (WMAF) as EA does. The struggles between two communities are different. Although we are all people of color/perpetual foreigners in white society, white people perceive us differently. In whites’ eyes, EA men are emasculated in the media and EA women are hypersexualized toys; SA men fall into the category brown men, SA women are generally not seen attractive by whites.
Golden Mongoloid is not a -pseudo-science conspiracist tried to divided anybody. His first love in Freshman year during college was a South Asian lady. Their romance lasted for two semesters despite his girlfriend constantly suffered objection and harassment from South Asian community. When I said I don’t find Australoid women generally attractive, he was the first one jumped out to defend their beauty, and how he was attracted to dark-skinned Tamil women. Golden Mongoloid definitely disagrees the way how currently pan-Asian movements proceed, he felt Asian identity became diluted and blurred by encompassing too many people from too many background; he found it hard to commonality in the current category “Asian”. But he definitely loves South Asians. Although sometimes I feel his emotion a bit exaggerated, overall he is a genuine guy.
Thank you for establishing aznidentity. We had shared your bus for so many days and learned many information, had some discussion from your subreddit. Now we have our own bus customized for our own purpose. I believe this would reduce misunderstanding and conflict, and fortify respective identities. Different buses drive for respective smooth rides. We start to learn and deeply respect each other by acknowledging instead of tolerating/dismissing the differences. We are still allies in fighting against white supremacy, and create society of equality. At the same time, we see the urgent need to prioritize issues specifically for EA+SEA.
Hope this explanation helps.
Thank you,
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It definitely feels weird to express my Chinese identity online, with all the trolls that jump at you like their is no tomorrow. The best way I think is to spread the word, manipulate search rankings, at least in some form of Asian language so that they get it.
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@GrandSeiko I’m sorry you have those views & live in San Jose. It must be grating to constantly work & live with people you assume have something seriously wrong with them. If anything, successful people I’ve seen in NY, Bay Area, LA, Seattle etc- where there are lots of EA and Indians working together - develop a rapport with the other group. You almost have to, to maintain your sanity - but I think they find common cause precisely because they are treated similarly and both observe white privilege as it manifests in the workplace. Not that many Hispanics, Blacks, or other races in those work environments. Far as similarities re: Indians versus blacks, I already went through that on my post; no point revisiting it if you’re going to skip it.
One thing I noticed over the years that differentiated groups that had Pride versus supremacist groups were that the latter had some not insignificant cluster of people that could not get along with anyone. Like no one. They were just angry people that had gripes with any different group of people- some shorthand to dismiss them as “less than”. The inward character of the loudest and most vocal shaped the outlines of the group’s charter. I’m not saying you fit this bill- but we always see some number who can’t stand blacks, and can’t stand Muslims, and can’t stand this group or that group - and everyone’s an intruder and oppresses them. They are the classic purity spiralers. I noticed you said East Asian cause. Are SE Asians part of it too- or because of LLAG are they all history too?
Such people often cannot even clearly articulate why they want everyone else out. One day it’s X needs to go. Then it’s Y. The kind of “us versus them” mentality - how long do you think it will be before after you winnow it down to E. Asian that such people will then cast aspersions on let’s say Japanese, or Korean or Taiwanese. I see this all the time in white pride groups where after they’re done kicking out those who violate the “one drop rule”, they kick out people who are dating non-whites, kick out slavs, kick out Turks. Soon they are some tiny group of angry purists - seeing the result of all their anger spent on everyone but the real enemy or towards any productive cause.
Far as I know you didn’t play a role creating Asian identity. You didn’t play a significant role in AM (or maybe you did- if so- what’s your username?). You just showed up one fine day and said “Absent any track record of doing anything positive, I’m going to kick out X, Y, and Z”.
I’m really glad GoldenMongoloid with his wonderful history of positive accomplishment has won over so many followers. We all know how much his subs have accomplished compared to AM or AI.
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@arcterex “They’re white. And Indians are not white.” And blacks are not white, either. That means they’re our allies too? Whatever. Honestly I’m tired of Indians co-opting the Eastern Asian cause. There needs to be a goddamn line in the sand for Indians/Bangladeshis/Pakistanis/Sri Lankans, the culture of honor killings and castes.
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@CivilRightsAZN the whole reference to Caucasoid, Mongloid, etc. seems taken right out of racial conspiracy literature that drones on and on about “caucasoids, mongoloids, and negroids”. I see that a lot from Golden Mongoloid - pseudo-science mixed with conspiracy-esque language on race. They’re white. And Indians are not white. Even the Indo-Aryan migration theory has various forms and numerous critics. To whatever extent it’s true, then I suppose Africans are white too because we share a common ancestor.
Moreover, it’s honestly a diversion. The experience of E,SE, and S Asians has a remarkable number of similarities down to shared stereotypes they endure, similarities in home culture, often clustered in similar areas (esp. coastal cities), find themselves in similar work environments and universities. I find it interesting that several well-developed large, successful communities like Asian Masculinity were pan-Asian – that we had contributors who actually did things, not just talk about them, and built upon that strength – and now we have a few loud and persistent types who are eroding that foundation with psuedo-science and exaggerating the differences while ignoring the similarities. If these were people that had their shoulder to wheel all these years - and then said something along these lines- I might think different; but since it’s people we’re not familiar with - I really have to wonder. Asian Identity won’t be the first movement (or the last) where you have johnny-come-latelys enter a group well into its development and attempt addition by subtraction whether or not they are genuine, and end up actually doing more harm than good. We end up with more division, more idle debate, and less activism - because not only are these types not productively contributing, they’re drowning the rest in these debates as well.
Pan-Asianism doesn’t mean that individual groups shouldn’t have their own strategies and implement them. There can & should be activism beyond some shared framework the different groups have. But the reality is that there is synergy in many of our efforts- if you look at Kulture, 90% of the reports (I’m guessing) have to do with E and SE Asians. This wasn’t something the talkers, and preachers of division did- this was something a pan-Asian group of people - East Asian, Malaysian, Indian did. I suspect those that are active along these lines will continue with further initiatives while those committed to division like Golden Mongoloid and those that parrot his divisive rhetoric will parallel those constructive efforts with “talk”.
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But tactically, we can still form coalition with South Asians, West Asians or other minorities on some specific issues.
Agree with this. Allying with other POC where it’s convenient definitely helps, as long as we don’t prioritize their issues over ours and only focus on the issues where we overlap. I believe with Latinos, Arabs and Desis, we can definitely align with them in terms of immigration issues and with blacks, in terms of gender division and being othered due to our looks (since both Asians and blacks look drastically different from whites).
@secondstrike I agree that being cautious is good too. As an insanely small group, we’re already pretty vulnerable. We can’t afford whites to infiltrate what little activist movements we have (seeing that we barely have any at all).
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@CivilRightsAZN said in Realizing a big problem:
Do we have user verification mechanism in this forum? I mean we can still make some contents public, but access of certain section would be reserved to verified insiders. But first, we have to recruit more netizens/redditers to this forum.
No, but we could make one.
Natalie, you really don’t have to worry in light of history. FBI began monitoring Martin Luther King, Jr., in December 1955, but this did not stop the tide of Civil Rights Movement.
Well, IMO, caution is good. Monitoring was the most gentle form of counter-activism they engaged in - infiltration, sabotage, violence, and even assassinations were the other. Look at the book,
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@natalie_ng @asianmovement @secondstrike
I am verified AZN user in Natalie’s new subreddit.
- I found this new subreddit inspiring to re-define “Asian” as Mongoloid people. Since in the fabric of culture and history, we don’t share so much commonality with desis, who are predominantly hybrid of Caucasian and Dravidian, religion-wise Hindu or Islam; subject to huge influence of caste system.
On the other hand, Native Americans who are Mongoloids are included in the subreddit for our shared destiny of genocide and “soft slavery” from whites. To sum up, we don’t have to follow the census definition of “Asian” to initiate pan-Asian movements. But tactically, we can still form coalition with South Asians, West Asians or other minorities on some specific issues.
- Do we have user verification mechanism in this forum? I mean we can still make some contents public, but access of certain section would be reserved to verified insiders. But first, we have to recruit more netizens/redditers to this forum.
Natalie, you really don’t have to worry in light of history. FBI began monitoring Martin Luther King, Jr., in December 1955, but this did not stop the tide of Civil Rights Movement.
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Re: Realizing a big problem
I feel like these reddit communities , slack communities , and this forum should all be layers of an Onion in terms of the whole community structure. At the outside layer , we should have our reddit forums where new users get introduced to our ideology , and meet other members. The next onion layer should be this forum - where tactics, strategies are discussed , but away from prying eyes. And finally , the final layer of this onion should be the slack communities where individuals have been verified to be Asian , and extremely personal details are discussed.
